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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:12 pm 
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"Resistance" is a good word. I don't see a whole lot of difference between the English of 1296 and the Nazis of 1939 - 41. Wallace and Moray were the Resistance of 1297.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:14 pm 
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Wallace was a rebel, and there is no shame in that

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:27 pm 
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Scottish Republican wrote:
Wallace was a rebel, and there is no shame in that


So you are saying you wish Scotland's National Hero described as a rebel to our school kids, What message does that send out to our kids :ranting:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:03 pm 
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Erm, that rebellion isn't necessarily wrong... that conformity and compliance are not always good things etc etc.

Are we turning out school children who are docile automatons who always obey and never rebel? Sometimes, but not always it's a good thing.

If I never rebelled against my family tradition, I would never be a nationalist.

Why are people so bothered about him being called a rebel? He was a rebel against a foreign invader.

There is no shame in Wallace being a rebel against English occupation.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:49 pm 
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Sorry to bring up trainspotter stuff... but in Star Wars, at least the original ones, the rebels are the heroes. Children still love those films...

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:38 am 
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Scottish Republican wrote:
Erm, that rebellion isn't necessarily wrong... that conformity and compliance are not always good things etc etc.

Are we turning out school children who are docile automatons who always obey and never rebel? Sometimes, but not always it's a good thing.

If I never rebelled against my family tradition, I would never be a nationalist.

Why are people so bothered about him being called a rebel? He was a rebel against a foreign invader.

There is no shame in Wallace being a rebel against English occupation.


Is this the same english occupation he did not sign to and was also working in the name of the Scottish King
Dont hear the french called rebels in the second world war, or was that because the Brits helped them,Jesus he is our greatest hero and you want the Scottish education system to call him a rebel, you have more faith than me with our teachers to teach that right, jeus Charli,s teacher could not even spell Culloden and was educated by a 7 year old my daughter, the teacher spelt it Kulloden and did not even know what happended FFS

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:39 pm 
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Still don't see what's so wrong about him being called a rebel. He is and was one of our chief national heroes.

I'd be more concerned about the Culloden thing.

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Jesus he is our greatest hero and you want the Scottish education system to call him a rebel,


Jesus was a rebel too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Scottish Republican wrote:
Still don't see what's so wrong about him being called a rebel. He is and was one of our chief national heroes.

I'd be more concerned about the Culloden thing.

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Jesus he is our greatest hero and you want the Scottish education system to call him a rebel,


Jesus was a rebel too.


Culloden thing has been sorted :saltire: and we will agree to disagree regarding the rebel bit

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:55 pm 
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I don't see what the problem is. :confused1: Nothing wrong with being a rebel.

We both agree on the nature of Longshanks' government, so I don't see what's so wrong with rebelling against it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:41 pm 
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Scottish Republican wrote:
I don't see what the problem is. :confused1: Nothing wrong with being a rebel.

We both agree on the nature of Longshanks' government, so I don't see what's so wrong with rebelling against it.


sr , its not the word , its the perception it implies , especially to more impressionable individuals in a historical context.

Rebel against the legitimate british ruler , is how they imply it in some descriptions.

Little descriptive words that can alter the wider story.

For me its almost like the english daily rags implying that alec salmond is a rebel against the legitimate brit government , the coalition.

Pedantic and picky? yes probably.

Bit by bit , its just a little towards healing the hundreds of years of lies and obfustication about our history.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:12 pm 
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I disagree, "rebel" implies you revolt against whoever's in power, legitimate or not.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:55 pm 
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Scottish Republican wrote:
I disagree, "rebel" implies you revolt against whoever's in power, legitimate or not.

The point is this is being taught to young Scottish kids and there idea of what a rebel is will change from your point and also the knowledge you have on the subject and this is being taught in Scottish schools and that's why I object to it although we do disagree about the use of the word rebel as Wallace never signed and loyalty to shanks and always fought under the Scottish Kings name. Shanks was asked to make a choice regarding our next king as he was the biggest closest nation he was not asked to blxxdy invade us or murder 12k plus at Berwick

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:52 am 
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Children should not be taught just to accept authority just because it's there. But of course, that's what the states round the world teach. I wonder why...

Even the Scottish kings built their "authority" on the back of violence, and were not accepted by large parts of the country such as Moray and Galloway.

Mao said "power comes out of a barrel of a gun". He was a brutal bastard but he was right.

So what is actually wrong with being a rebel? Nothing, nothing at all. Unless you happen to be the power s/he is rebelling against. One of the best things that can be said about Wallace is that he didn't set himself up as a king. That's because kings, of almost any kind, have no democratic mandate.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:09 pm 
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The wording has been changed, Thanks to everyone involved

http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/scotlandsh ... /index.asp

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:25 pm 
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Result. People power.
:saltire:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:48 pm 
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So what was wrong with being a rebel again?

Are nationalists all to be conformists?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:27 pm 
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SR we discussed this on this site I didnt agree with you and you didnt agree with me, As I said at the start this is a Scottish education site which kids get taught from, and I for one am very happy its being changed.
You may not think this is a result but I. and many others feel it is and glad it changed

Did not post this to have another discussion with you regarding this but to let people know its been chnaged

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:30 pm 
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It sends out the message that you must always play by the other side's rules.

The trouble with a lot of Scottish nationalists - people here excluded - are that they are too conformist. They think all politics is party political, that politics begins and ends with elections, parties and governments, that the only struggle is at the ballot box. If we're going to fight the union we ARE rebels. You can debate as to whether the current set up is legal or mandated (and there are plenty of arguments against that - like pretty much all the Treaty of Union being violated etc), but it is still the current set up.

Fighting the union is not just electoral, we've got to fight for our culture and languages to survive, we've got to fight against our country becoming a dump for nuclear/chemical etc waste, we've got to fight against our education and legal system becoming completely subsumed into Anglo-Saxon thinking, we've got to fight the way our children are raised by English and American TV programmes and are taught how to think by them, we've got to fight our town centres being destroyed by large English businesses and multinationals, we've got to fight for our rural communities and stop them becoming useless holiday resorts for people with too much money and no interest in us...

We have to do this whether or not we win elections, or whether or not we win the next referendum. If we win the referendum and don't do this, we lose the future, and if we lose the referendum and don't do this, we may not win the next one. Look at the Republic of Ireland, it won independence, but is losing the war, thanks to the fact it is being colonised by Tesco, and English newspapers and TV, and soccer clubs like Man U and Liverpool... all of which destroy the Irish identity and hinder the language revival.

All of that is rebellion. I'm not ashamed to call it such. There is no dishonour in rebelling if it is for a just cause. I believe our cause is just, theirs is not, and that we're going to win. I just hope we win without completely losing certain other aspects of Scotland e.g. Gaidhlig, shops which are not English supermarkets etc. I hope if I have children, opr grandchildren, that they do not grow up as little Brits either in the UK, or a pseudo-independent Scotland.

That's me off the soapbox now.

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