Siol nan Gaidheal forum

Talking tae montrose and govanhill about wallace and bruce got me thinking about the stone of destiny.

We all know it was supposed to have been taken by edward 1 after his pillaging of scotland , but the rumour went around for years , possibly centuries that it wasnt the real stone and the real one had been hidden by the guardian priest.

The story goes that edward 1 took a red sandstone block back to england , and the real one was a black stone carved in celtic designs.

Does anyone know if the stone that the english had was ever carbon dated to see how old it was , the real stone must be thousands of years old at least.???

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abair ach beagan agus abair gu math e

yip tests were done on the one they took away and the material was similar to perth sand stone...:)

The English wouldve been seen miles away approaching the Abbey, plenty time to go get another and swap them, they probably already had a fake there and the real one hidden

I believe there's a replica of the real one on show at the Bannockburn Centre these days...

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Work as if you live in the early days of a better nation.

The stone that sat in westminster is the one that sits in the castle. When it was given back to the theifs from the south after Sir Iam Hamilton had brought it home, they done tests on it. The old oil burning lamps in westminster abbey released a fine coating of soot that could never be copied. They matched the soot "fingerprint" on the stone that was returned with other items in westminster abbey.

So the question isnt whether the one in the castle is a copy or not. But whether it is the real stone edward took.

If you want to know where the real stone is then its a relativly simple deduction. If you are the priest and you know the english are coming. You bury it but you bury it within consecrated ground due to its importance and so that changes in the land wont affect its location. You also bury it within the foundations of the building you reside in so anyone watching wont see it get buried outside. Then, once its burried it is safe from fire and theft. Look at where the crown jewels were hidden. Inside!

Scotlands history is too turbulent and too lost for anyone to know its current location and for it not to have came to light. Extensive privately funded excavations are needed to recover it.

Thats my theory anyway.

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For freedom, for that alone which no man gives up but with life itself

accordding to one story I read the stone was found buried in MacBeths castle during the victorian times and taken to London for the museaum but never reached the building dont know how accurate the story is and then there is the Dundee stone now elswhere protected by the Knights of St John of Scotland!

While it would be good to find the original, it doesnt really matter.

The object is not what is of importance but the symbol and ethos of what it represents. Some might say that the stone is a representation of what is carried within the hearts and minds of patriots.

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For freedom, for that alone which no man gives up but with life itself

You can't carbon date stone. The stones themselves would be millions of years old and pre-date human history.

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"The thistle rises and forever will" - MacDiarmid

NB - I am not the same person as the poster "Scottish republic".

Look at pictish/celtic stones and how elaborate they are. Its unlikely the most important stone would have been left without inscription :)

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For freedom, for that alone which no man gives up but with life itself

Thanks fur the replies.

There must be some way to date the stone.

I bet you it wont be done though or kept hush hush , wouldnt want to embarress our southern friends now.

I bet the church will know where the real stone is though assuming the sassunnachs didnae have the original.

Another way of telling would be the type of stone , i would imagine the real stone is obviously not native to scotland , possibly from the middle east.

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abair ach beagan agus abair gu math e

according to legend the original stone came from the middle eart and was the pillar of king David and was transported to Eire via Spain by a Jewish tribe whose Princess gave rise to the name of Eire it was then taken to Iona and later taken to Scone.Its discription was said to be of Black Basalt with carvings the colour black could be wrong as Black also translates as sinister or mysterious but one thing for sure it was never sandstone for it was said to have a glass like appearance!

Fifer when you say glass like. Where did you read that description? When was glass invented?

Does anyone know of the oldest written description of the stone?

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For freedom, for that alone which no man gives up but with life itself

one theory is that they saw the engerlish approaching and replaced it with a cess pit lid pmsfl and to me that thought that engerlish kings have been crowned sitting on a lavvy lid well that does it for me

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alba gu brath
if its no Scottish its crap

The discription glass like I think is meant to be like marble or Obsian that black glass like stone certainly there was markings on it according to the book that I read in the 80's wish I could remember the author , the book talked about three sacred stones that had been at Iona and that all three were under the protection of the Knights of St John of Scotland at some point in history.The book was just called the stone of Destiny. Both Ireland and Iona hold the clues to its discription!I am no expert and since the stone appeared in London during the Victorian times I would not be too surprised that the London Temple does not have it now since the Templars were originaly jewish and the Stone being the pillar of King David the dreamer!

Sorry it was Jacobs pillar not King Davids pillar but still of jewish origin!

I have just been on a Jewish fundamentlist site about the Pillar of Jacob where they say a Geologist checked they stones in Scotland and found he could not match any sandstone in Scotland or Ireland that matched that Sandstone but he did find Sandstone near Bethel at the Red Sea that closely matched the stone of Destiny but was not allow to take a sample the size of a pea from the stone despite asking Uk parliment. I f this is the case the stone was at the Temple mount and then transported via Spain and taken to Ireland where the Irish Kings were crowned on the hill of Tarah.Gt was then taken to Iona by the Scots of Ireland then transported to Scone for safety from raids of Norseman. The article says there is a groove accross the stone in line with the carrying rings where they reckon a pole was used to carry it by 4 people. But I don't Know how accurate the article is.The article also says it was kept at Dunstaffage which is where it was found in the Victorian times by an archeologist.

Thanks fur that fifer.

interesting stuff pal!

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abair ach beagan agus abair gu math e

Some people say it was perhaps meteoric in origin, like the black stone in the Kaaba.

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"The thistle rises and forever will" - MacDiarmid

NB - I am not the same person as the poster "Scottish republic".

Yes I read that as well on one site about the Muslim stone , most sites say it was sand stone and jugeing by what I read looks like the real one is in Edinburgh which goes against my earlier beliefs and makes me wonder what was found at Dunstaffnage during the Victorian times and also what lay in that church in Dundee.The Jewish connection with Ireland I find fascinating and the fact that the on the Royal coat of arms came to Ireland as a gift from the Jewish princess along with the Stone of Destiny along with a holy banner making Ireland a very holy place!Maybe we should hand the stone back to the Jews or the Irish nows a thought to ponder over!

Another missing object that was stolen is the black rood. Would be good to find that aswell.

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For freedom, for that alone which no man gives up but with life itself

Here is some info I gleaned from the web about Black Rood so named because the piece of the true cross was carried in a black wooden box.It was stolen by Edward 1 in 1296 and returned in 1328 and lost after the battle of Neville Cross after held at Durham Cathedral until 1540 when during the reformation it was said to have been destroyed by Henry Vlll during the sacking of the building but there is always hope that some one might have smuggled it away or possibly it could have been taken back to Westminster who knows worth researching!